what happened in the hospital

i took charlie to see dr for cough as its been 4 weeks now and she was worried about chest ressession and an odd bulge when he breathed on one side

she asked us to go back the next day which we did, she still wasn;t satisfied so asked if i would take him to hospital to see a paediatrition

she said the ones at my local hospital would see me (she was going to send me to st marys in paddington) and wrote me a letter to give to them explaining why she wanted him seen

when i got home i opened the letter and read it (naughty i know) it said about the chest ressession and how she wanted a second opinion and she also put that he is a skinny baby and she wanted to flag up his poor weight gain incase it had anything to do with reflux

so i went home and packed an overnight bag (i had a feeling) and took him in, the doctors looked at him and gave him a chest x-ray which was very scary for him - he had to wear a lead cup over his testicles, that came back all fine and i had to collect a urine sample from him (not an easy task i can tell you) so they decided that his chest was ok as his lungs have been clear everytime ive had them checked

but they were not happy with his weight, i was asked about his feeding (he goes about an hour between feeds and feeds on both breasts) i argued my case but they were not having any of it and we were eventually told by a different dr (who i suspect was sent to us because we were being stubborn) that they could not legally let us leave because of his failure to thrive, he then threw out loads of comprimises and we eventually backed down and agree'd to being admitted

The senior registrar came and took bloods (one of my demands after the last time) and i was given a feeding chart to fill in and some formula, i was told by the dr that i would have to stay untill they SAW that charlie was putting on weight, he said he wanted to see at least 30grs a day and that they would work out a feeding plan and maybe let me home overnight after a few days (i begain to worry about christmas)

i was taken up on to the childrens ward and given a room, the nurse took his weight and worked out a feeding plan of 70mls every 3 hours, i got her to get me an electric expresser as the doctor said if i can expressed the 70mls then i wouldn't have to use the formula i managed to get 40mls out but i just couldn't get the 70mls out and i hurts myself trying

so i gave him the 40mls ebm and 30 mls of formula and we both tried to get some sleep which was very hard as we were woken to feed every 3 hours and they kept coming in and taking his blood oxygen levels and temp plus charlie threw up everywhere after his 7am feed

i couldn't bring him into the bed with me to sleep as it was a very skinny single bed so when he came in with me he slept and i just layed there watching him

i made myself too sore to express by machine again (being stupid and having the suction too high) so i expressed by hand when i could but they said that if charlie wanted to feed inbetween the 3 hours i could breast feed him and he was still feeding which ment that i couldn't express more than 20 mls to add to the formula

my DH told me off because charlie was crying for milk and i was trying to hold him off so that i could express it and use less formula and charlie was getting quite upset, DH said that his never had to cry for milk before its given to him as soon as he gets abit grumpy and he is probably wondering what is going on, so that made me feel really guilty for letting charlie cry so i fed him and in the end i couldn't express anything because charlie was feeding alot from me still despite being given formula every 3 hours which made me worry that he was starving poor thing

anyway the time passed quite quickly in my sleep deprived state plus DH brought stuff to distract me and the next day at about 12ish i was seen by a group of paediatritions. the woman said how long charlie is and how he doesn't look like his age because of it (maybe his naturally long and thin) she said she expected him to be very tall when he grows up she also said that his blood tests were back in and everything they tested for was normal except his protein was abit low and he had a touch of jaundice, i wish i had asked what this ment excactly were they signs of mild malnourishment or was that common for a breastfed baby his age but i was honestly expecting her to say that everything came back fine that i was abit stunned and i didn't think of the questions i should of asked till i got home

then the senior doctor joined us and asked about his feeding and i explained it all again he said that he is quite clearly not getting enough from me because at his age he should be going 2-3 hours between feeds when i tried to ask any question like does he ever think i will be able to soley breast feed and expressed my concerns about not being able to compete with the formula he just brushed me off and said its not a competition all that matters is that charlie thrives or dont worry about the label of breastfeeding all that matters is that charlie thrives (and i couldn't excactly argue with that could i ? of course i want my baby to thrive) he also said that all the benifits of me breastfeeding were lost and that my solely breastfeeding was actually detrimental to charlie, he said that the same thing happened with all 3 of his children

i asked if i could get prescribed something to boost my milk supply they said that they dont do that anymore, they used to but stopped 3 years ago then they said that i could go home which was abit of a shock but they didn't have to tell me twice. Once home i explained the feeding plan to DH he suggested that we dont feed him through the night with formula and i agreed as im always very milky at night (normal for breastfeeding) so he is just having it in the day

last night with his 9pm bottle he polished it off in one go and then very quickly turned his head and started bobbing at my breast which i gave.

it was so nice being in our own bed last night but my head is so mixed up right now ever since i went to the hospital ive felt completly split down the middle one half of me feels that im just one of the few women who actually cant do this because ive done everything i could this time and im still feeding so much and that im actually harming my baby by trying to stick to this so strongly and the other half feels like they are all panicking about nothing - his gaining at every weigh-in and that because he lost weight at 1st its normal for him not to be back on his birth centile yet

im so confused

Gosh, you really have been through it hun

I don't think it matters how you feed him, so long as you're happy he's gaining weight and Charlie is happy in himself.

With Jasmine being premature, I could only express for about 3 months but we still gave her formula in between as she was a very hungry baby. She ended up on SMA White as I couldn't get enough milk out with expressing along for her needs. She grew well and is a very healthy, happy 10 year old now.

Sophie is breastfeeding only. She also didn't put on any weight for a few weeks (1/2 oz in a week it was at one point) but that was due to being unwell with bronchiolitis and a cold. I was quite worried about it but the HV said providing she was putting on weight, no matter how small, to keep going and if it continued so low for a while, she'd recommend a formula feed at night. It didn't come to that but I would have been happy to do it if needed.

Try not to get yourself worked up hun. It does sound like the hospital haven't treated you too well and been a bit patronising.

Hopefully you won't have to go back again!

Hope things are improving

Aww hun. You must have been so worried and stressed by it all. I agree with Krista that it sounds like the hospital have been very patranising in the way they dealt with you.
I also agree that breastfeeding (as a general rule) is best for the baby, but there are some women who for whatever reason just can't exclusively breastfeed and have to rely on formula to help. I know it was years ago but when my nan had my uncle they made her breastfeed and wouldn't let her have any formula. They said every woman can breastfeed and that's what our breasts are for. However my nan had inverted nipples and didn't produce much milk either. My uncle almost died of starvation because they were so adamant she should continue breastfeeding.
I agree with the doctors (as you do) that the most important thing is that Charlie thrives and if that means having to supplement him with formula then i think you have done your upmost to try and breastfeed exclusively and you may just be one of the unlucky women who just don't produce enough milk. Could you phone the hospital or go back to the GP and ask the questions you have in your head now about the blood results hun? That may help you make a more informed decision? If it meant he was suffering from very mild malnutrition then obviously you have your answer. If however these results are fairly common and normal then maybe you can try and find some more natural ways of increasing your milk supply until you can cut the formula out?
Also as you say hun, some babies are naturally smaller than others. They wouldn't be able to get an average if all babies were the same size would they! It does make me mad sometimes when they go on at you like you are deliberatly keeping them small (or big, it works the other way too!) My HV is on at me all the time that Jake has a small head? I mean it is growing and he is doing everything he is meant to and has no health concerns (touch wood!) what am i meant to do about it? He is also on a lower centile than his birth centile. He was just over 25th when born and is now just over the 9th and going along that line. They still say he is small but can see he is growing along that line so aren't undully worried. He looks really chubby to me! lol. His sister was bigger and was born on the 75th centile but she also dropped off of her birth centile and followed the 50th centile. I also have a friend who's daughter was born on the 75th centile and then dropped right down to the 4thcentile (she may even be lower than that now?) She is nearly 4 now and is perfectly healthy but very tall and lanky and is exactly like her mum was at the same age. She also has another daughter who is 6mths and is completely opposite and takes after her dad. She is on the 91st centile and weighs the same as my Jake already but is also perfectly healthy. All babies are different hun. You know Charlie best and i am sure you will make the decision that is best for you all! Good luck hun. I really hope things start to pick up soon for you! Xx

very stressfull

but i think im making sense of it all now


i think im doing fine and that charlie is just long and thin and hungry - just like his brother who ended up on formula - sma white

Why don't you buy breastmilk so you don't have to give formula?

i wouldn't know where

plus one of the reasons i wanted to breastfeed is that its free, money is pretty tight here

It's quite common not to be able to produce enough breast milk, so try not to get down about it, even though the hospital seemed to of treated you like a criminal. If you still want to breastfeed but are worried that you're not producing enough milk, you can carry on pumping as much as the little one normally feeds, then bottle feed formula. Then you can keep a record and show your HV or GP how much milk you are producing, some babies just don't pack on the pounds like others, but it doesn't mean they are malnourished. I hope you get everything straightened out soon.

Samuel said:
Why don't you buy breastmilk so you don't have to give formula?

i dont think we are allowed to buy it here, i think you can get it but it has to be donated.

Samuel said:
It's quite common not to be able to produce enough breast milk, so try not to get down about it, even though the hospital seemed to of treated you like a criminal. If you still want to breastfeed but are worried that you're not producing enough milk, you can carry on pumping as much as the little one normally feeds, then bottle feed formula. Then you can keep a record and show your HV or GP how much milk you are producing, some babies just don't pack on the pounds like others, but it doesn't mean they are malnourished. I hope you get everything straightened out soon.

i wasnt able to b/feed no supply, so i bottle fed, Tom was a poor eater and gained very slowly. He was classed as failure to thrive and when he was about 6 months we were told that he needed to put on 2lbs in a months, that is quite hard when you dont eat much, but we pushed the formula and pushed the solids, and he pulled it out of the bag. He gained his weight and kept out of the hospital, but i have to admit that they made me feel a failure knowing that i wasnt giving enough food to my baby. I know that wasnt the case, but it made me feel that way.

In no way are you at fault for this and sometimes these things happen as long as charlie is well and you are well, then i would take every day as it comes and dont worry.

and i wish you all well

Lucy said:

Samuel said:
Why don't you buy breastmilk so you don't have to give formula?

i dont think we are allowed to buy it here, i think you can get it but it has to be donated.

Well Soup is from England as am I and we bought breastmilk for all our children, the women producing the milk is the one that donates to the breast banks, which is then given freely to hospitals and charged for if a parent wants to buy it.

yes my lactation expert told my on xmas eve that when she used to collect milk for a milk bank all the mums found their supply doubled because they were all eating so well