Is this in the realms of normal, and if not what could it be

Sorry this is a really long one, I am new to this forum and am desperatly trying to get as much advice about my 4 year old daughter as possible.
She has always been one of those feisty kids that can throw a good tantrum, starting about 18months and still going on to this day. The problem is the frequancy and level of her behaviour. We have done everything possible to try to knock her tantrums on the head but they are a part of her and we have come to accept that. The problem is as she gets older her behaviour seems more and more different to that of her friends. She will get herself in such a state that a simple request for her to do something like go for a wee will end up with half and hour of tears. She has no problem communicating and making friends. She has recently developed a slight problem with her speech in that she is thinking to quickly for the words to come out.
Everything we ever do has to be on her terms and she will only play with her sisiter or friends if they play her way (which they usually do).
She is always tired despite having 12hours sleep every night and often a nap in the day as well. She seems sad a lot of the time and spends a lot of the time curled up in fronyt of the telly with her teddy.
Her tantrums don't seem so much like tantrums as complete freak outs now and you can't talk her down once she has decided that she is upset.
I am considering goping to the doctors or asking the HV but I don't really know where to start. She also does not eat very well and has a lot of issues around food, she will now wet herself quite regularly to get out of sitting down for dinner.
Please give me some ideas if this is normal or i should be asking someone for help. After 4 years thinking I am a bad mother I have now come to the conclusion that it might not be me.

Go to your HV hun. I hope you don't mind me saying this, but it does sound like she wears you down into giving in to her demands. my son is 18 months and can get hysterical during paddies - I mean literally smashing his head against the floor for attention. We have to just ignore it, and the stares when in public - I know it is easier said than done though.

See what your HV suggests first. I hope things get sorted for you all xx

Thanks for that, we have ignored her tantrums for years, makes absolutly no difference.
There are a couple of other things that i forgot in my first message. She refueses to wear clothes, takes them off at every given opportunity in the most inapprorpriate places. She is also very unaffectionate, hates physical contact and always has, she will have a cuddle but only if she comes to you and not very often, screams the place down if anyone tries to kiss her. Something io have always thought a bit odd.

my 2.5 yr old turned nightmareish over the christmas period. our main things i noticed was that she turned into the devil child after watching tv, and if i let her watch 1 dora for instance she would scream and shout and be completely unreasonable for the rest of the day if i turned it off. my answer to this was Ban TV, she went 4 weeks with no tv - temper tantrums were awful at first as i used to let her watch tv all the time. this week is the first week she has had tv since we banned it and if she has started she has gone straight on her time out chair and after 2-3 mins she has calmed down and apologised.

i started time out when she was 18 months old and just had a place in every room that was suitable. since christmas we got a yellow plastic chair and everytime she was/is unreasonable or naughty or not listening to us, we say to her (and stay calm throughout) "mummy is going to count to 3 and if you don't stop this behaviour (or whatever) then you will have a time out...1.....2...3...." then we sit her on the chair. the first time we did this since we introduced the chair it took 20-30 times to keep putting her back on it, a couple of times she stood up and threw her chair, but i calmly kept putting her back on. eventually she gaave up and sat there till i asked her if she was ready to get off (2-3 mins of sitting solid on the chair). and i ake her apologise everytime and it's only been recently she has been able to tell me why, and if she can't then i tell her straight away. then once its over we change the mood (forget the temper) and play as before. if she is naughty again she goes straight back on after 1 2 3.

it may be your daughter has got intot he habit of getting her own way even in regads to playing with her friends or sister. if you tried this technique with everything you may find it takes a few weeks but i can assure you her mood and attitude will change!!! also if she watches alot of tv she won't be tiring herself out and she won't sleep particularly well becuase she will dream about what she is watching and this often can make them have nightmares!

my daughter has completely turned her mood/tantrums around in the last few weeks and i truely beleive its by having more quality time with me playing with her and NO TV (you could use it for a reward if she has been a good girl all day - once you have cracked the tantrums and not playing nicely etc) and time out.

you could also try a sticker chart, where if she is good she gets a sticker, if she is bad one gets taken a way, and once she gets to 10 (or something) you give her 50p and take her to the corner shop on saturday and let her pick something..... anything is worth a try right!!!

sorry this has gone on!
i hope my ramblings are useful!!!!

hehe!! when i was pregnant yes but not for a while - to be honest i ran out of ideas and the only thing i could think of was to remove the "temper tantrum triggers" - tv being the main one!!!!

sorry it just worked for me ;o)

Thanks, Charlie red good advice but have tried it all. We have now come to the concl;usion that it is food allegies and have an appointment at the doctors tommorow to start the process for getting her tested for coaliacs disease. She has been on a dairy free diet and taking iron supplements for a few days now and seems a little better. Very hard to get to the bottom of things but by 4.5yrs we have tried everything. Think the whole behaviour thing is triggered by being so tired ass prob not absorbing food, she was lactose intolerant as a baby, as are me and her little sis. I feel a lot more positive as I think we are moving forwards at last, need to get things sorted before she starts school this year.

wow good luck with that! all sounds complicated!let us know how you get on!

Hi, I'm probably a long way away from you (across the world possibly) and by the time you get this post, you may have been to your docs. But I can sympathise with your problem - some kids are born "difficult". My little guy has some learning difficulties, and has dyspraxia. Hates certain foods, hates certain noises, hates certain clothes, gets irritated with things easily - sunscreen on his face, the feel of mud on his feet, and though we are lucky he does not throw major tantrums, he whines instead most of the time (he's nine now) and cries often over small issues. It has been difficult to deal with because most of his life there have been problems of some sort with damn near everything we wanted to do with him, or gave him, or fed him, or told him etc. We tried everything too, and lots of people just don't understand what we go through. Getting ready of a morning - sheer hell! He would waste whole days if you let him in front of the box, and has no inclination to do anything - not due to laziness, he is tired most of the time from when he gets up to when he goes to bed. He finds most things difficult - right down to using a knife and fork as there is very little strength in his arms from being double jointed. For his learning difficulties we have joined him up with the Wynford Dore Achievement Centre here in NZ, and I believe they are worldwide. The results of this programme will not be seen however for a good year or so, in the meantime we are still trying to figure out ways to cope with his particular behaviours. He is frustrated a lot. I thought your child sounded frustrated, and agree that perhaps there is an underlying cause to all of this. She sounds a little like my boy, he is not terribly affectionate, has always turned away from us, doesn't hug like everyone else, always turns his back. Cannot stand being touched at times, and whines at us. I'm not saying your child has dyspraxia, but think there is an underlying cause and wish you all the luck in solving it. Food seems a good start. Good on you for not giving up, you know your kid, you know what feels right and what doesn't.

Quick update, went to docs, he was very sympathetic and seemed to take things very seriously. Today we have been to the hospital for blood tests for coeliacs and diabetes, we will just have to wait for the results and see. I can't stand waiting, she seemd to actually be going further downhill at the moment, we need to solve whatever this problem is and quickly.

coeliacs disease is really common nowadays - thanks to all the junk avaialble now!

my friend and my father in law both have it - it doesnt tend to cause temper tantrums tho! just bloating of the tummy, it tends to go like its full of air.and also problems with the bowls.they are just on a new diet that means they cant eat or drink anything containing wheat and (cant think what the other thing is) but theres many substitutes as theres the special breads and things. my father-in-law doesnt work and so he gets all his food on prescription for free.

with her only being young tho i imagine it affects kids in different ways - at least the docs can identify the cause of whatever it is and then get her on the mend.

We are off to the doctors soon for some of the test results, I am absolutly dreading it. The coeliacs test won't be back yet but the diabetes and all the other ones should be. I am so nervous and need to make sure I don't react in any way to whatever may be said. Arghhh